又看到国人在Java方面的一个壮举。

03-05-03 banq
http://hideli.51.net/sjep/devdoc/index.html

这个sjep我感觉定位很模糊,你说它类似Jboss这样的appliaction server吧,不象;你说它是一个EJB组件软件吧,看不出它提供了除EJB以外更多的功能层。

或许它提供了EJB外的安全功能,可是JAAS+EJB的权限控制,J2EE规范早已经有了,Jboss这样的Server也能实现EJB的方法级别的安全控制。

或许它屏蔽了许多单个Server,可以让很多Server运行起来象一个Server,但是这属于J2EE的Cluster技术,Jboss 或weblogic本身已经实现了这样集群服务。

其勇气和精神可贵,可是在如今世界上Java Server端正聚焦O/R Map或面向特征等最前沿先进技术的推进开发中时,sjep自诩为国际原始创新性,不知是否又范了国人闭门造车的老毛病。

iceant
2003-05-03 19:48
呵呵~~ 你好有空啊,这里看看,那里看看...

我在写一个基于 Jato Web Application Framework 的 RAD.

主要是为自己写的,以前写了个 1.0 版,也是为自己写的。用了几个月,感觉还是少了些什么,这次准备加些 feature 上去。

对了,我现在最需要的是一个小工具,最好是可视化的,可以从数据库中选取需要查询的表,以及表中的字段,可以设置一些参数,如 orderby groupby 等,最后可以自动生成一些 JavaBean 来操作这些表。就像 JBuilder 8 中的DataModuler,只可惜 DataModuler 生成的代码是与 JBuilder bind 在一起的,我需要的是使用JDBC 的JavaBean.

不知道 Banq 以及各位有没有见过这样的东东呢?

banq
2003-05-03 23:07
有的,不过好像是收费的,免费的目前没见过。算了用Jbuilder的CMP,也是可视化开发 不错的。呵呵

Jevang
2003-05-03 23:37
First to Iceant,

I just reply to your post about DAO gen in separate thread, try Velocity, actually I just finished a generator myself.

you use XML to model the object, can have whereclause, relationship, and some business rules( formula, constraint) stuff, there get translated into java object with simple getter/setter, constraint, relationship enforcement.

I use Velocity. I did found a tool that can gen object from database schema directly( I can find it for you if you care), but I need add lots of things before gen.

BTW, do you guys have yahoo messager?

Jevang
2003-05-03 23:50
To Banq,

The title here led me to that website, I like his idea "Simple", that's what exactly My Topas trying to solve with J2EE.

Yes, I have the same confusion about his technology, too me, it has some cute stuff but maybe over-stated to my opinion.

I think he is using some kind reflection to hook client to his sejbObject which is not exposed as EJB, which is not new( JMX, Proxy all do the same thing). I have little doubt about its performance under heavy load. But the idea is same as Topas, I use a GenericFacade Bean to brigde the client and server.

He definitely see the problem of declaring security in EJB, so he push all security control into one file or database, that's practical approach, in fact I did the same thing in topas

I am not impressived with his distribution, in topas I call it "Service routing", it's not a first class feature, in certain cases, it can be very useful, but generally its useless or hurt perofrmance if use it blindly.

In summary, its product has some nice things and cover a lot of ground, should we invite him into our discussion? I really want to shot him a emal.

-Wanchun

iceant
2003-05-04 10:25
TO: Jevang

I use velocity to generate special framework code too.

To use xml is an good idea. But I'm doing sth to improve the coding efficiency. I think GUI is a good choice here.

BTW: Here is my yahoo_messenger #: pengchen_iceant

TO:Banq

EJB 太过重量级了,除非是重用性很高的组件,否则,成本太高。

说实在的,我又用回以前的老方法了,将数据逻辑的处理放在了 Store Procedure 中, 毕竟一个 SQL 就完成的东西,实在没必要去浪费那么多的网络资源,而且我相信在数据库本地做操作,要比在Java中做效率高,事务处理也好控制。

Jevang
2003-05-04 12:00
To Iceant,

you are really versatile, a friendly UI is always the desired things, unfornately ( my Java UI experience == null) always return true. So I use XML editor for data modeling.

Are you doing someone to integrate with Jbuilder? Maybe we are doing similar thing now( actually it's a friend of mine, a java client expert), the idea is after define object model(meta-data) in XML, we generate database ddl, java objects and make the meta-data available in Jbuilder, with our design time resolver and dataset provider, jbuilder programmer can build multi tier app just as easy as client/server database app. challenge is we just start to use jbuilder, may not quite fully understand how people use it, another concern is market, I certainly hope jbuilder is the No.1 IDE for building java client, otherwise my investment is wasted.

I am sure you are not promoting store procedure, but I agree it's very popular and practical in many situations.

Oh, thanks again for the tip of browser printing, if you got chance to Hainan, buy a insurance at airport, the policy is printout use a activeX control.

Cheers

-Wanchun

banq
2003-05-04 18:45
to Jevang :

我们就谈谈它的安全设置,它的出发点是非常好,希望能让权限设置更简单,通过配置解决,它实际是想实现一个方便的权限配置系统,好像你以前也提到过这样的项目。 目前其实我也在做这样的系统,和它不同的是,我不是依附在J2EE或EJB这个框架上,也不同于ofbiz,它依赖于Entity engineer和Service engineer, 我觉得这两个依附体都太虚。

我依赖的树型结构的节点,我以前帖子说了,很多应用,包括网站Portal或电子政府等工作流系统,都离不开一个基本核心,节点Node,依附Node来开发一个动态可扩展的权限系统,我相信不会错,同时使用Java的JAAS,我查了一下sf.net关于这个的项目,还都在立项正在进行中,

目前我已经完成1/2的系统,我会引入NodeLet概念,NodeLet实际就是挂在一个Node上功能块,类似Portlet,比如可以是一个论坛,或其他。

对全系统的role设计已经进入尾声,从个人感觉,role设计真是一个基础知识,不精通role,很多项目就不可能做好,很多项目的失败就是role设计的失败。

iceant
2003-05-04 20:50
TO: Jevang

In fact, I'm not good at Java UI too. ^_^ And this is my first time to develop a Java UI application which is so complex.

It's really hard to understand the whole java ui framework. But I'm free these days. So, I can learning every day.

I believe Jbuilder is the most popular IDE for Java applications. So, you will not wast you investments on it. And it's fast enough.

I'm very glad to hear that you have solved browser printing problem. Congratulation!.

banq
2003-05-04 20:55
to iceant

关于EJB是否重量,正是我之前说的,这也是目前Java世界讨论的最热点,我们在这里也就不必争论,你选择JDBC也是很多人选择了EJB之后的“回归”,无可厚非,其实不管是否使用EJB,数据库连接包括直接JDBC都是浪费性能的,因此Cache是必选。

因此,Cache有几个方向:

1. 针对底层结构cache, 我上次贴了一篇文章,就是关于做JDBC的cache优化,至于这样优化cache是否有效,仁者见仁了。

2. 针对应用的Cache, 我认为这才是提高性能Cache的真正效力所在,但是因为每个应用都不不一样,就不大可能在底层做个通用的Cache机制,只能靠架构设计师在各自实际项目进行良好的设计。

因此,如果在我们中大型项目中,有一个良好的Cache机制,那么底层架构使用EJB还是JDBC或JDO已经不是很重要,区别我认为不会很大。

Jevang
2003-05-05 00:08
To Banq, 100% about your point on cache, there is no sinle pattern can be applied universally, so it's always a tough job to get it done right on complex system.

Glad to hear that the progress on your security framework, but I feel your target is far beyond simply enforce security for main stream business applications, It's for auth controlling type applications or for applications that have extensive exposure to hierachical management, flow control etc.

Just one wish, make sure it's easy pluggable to third party system,(Topas has only a simply security config, but I will create a interface call BanqSecurityContext to be integrated in future) Oh, it should be 100% bug free ;-)

Jevang
2003-05-05 00:20
Hi Iceant,

Good to get your confirmation on jbuilder popularity, I guess that's why you intend to use Jbuilder as IDE for plug.

I wish I have more free times, all my times in past month are sucked into preparing for next EAI system(In China), especially on XML transformation performance issues. but so far I have no confidence about their(developers) acceptance of using XML.

-Wanchun

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